Author Topic: Our Test Mule  (Read 57783 times)

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2013, 05:13:24 AM »
LOL, yea...  When you waved, I just waved back, I get a lot of
 that when driving the little car.  Then on second look I realized
 who it was...

I had just set the motor in and was turning the car around to do the
 radiator and shell.  I like to sweep the floor and pick up a little too.

Miz



1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2013, 05:35:25 PM »
___________________________________________________________________________ ______________
Today, I was making my front cover.  It goes over the encoder
 and RPM sensors to keep dirt out.  It also mounts the small pulse
counter that operates my speedo.

The pulse counter is driven by a small square cable 2" long.


It is a 5" aluminum sauce cooking pan.   $6.95-WalMart

They also had a coffee pot, but it was very thin.

Miz
1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2013, 06:21:31 AM »
Yahoo!

The dreaded drive cover is all mounted.  I need to hook up
 2 wires and check for speedo operation.  Then mount the
radiator/coolant hoses to the controller and fill the system.

The seats are back in already ,so all I need to do is to
perform the last two steps in the motor characterization
 procedure.

I am geared for 70 MPH top speed.  As this is an "In town"
car, 99% of my driving is at 45 MPH.  I might do a 1 mile
sprint up the expressway at 65 MPH.  (Most rare)

My strategy is to have a powerful motor in the 0-4000 RPM
 range.  (The area where the AC50 was weakest without
the powerglide). 


Step 1 was to do the "auto run" portion where the controller
 does 3 pulls and stresses the new motor to "see" if it will
work at all and is in the accepted range for the controller. 
At the end of this part, the controller sets the field
weakening value
to ZERO to start the tests from.

Step 2= the BASE SPEED test.   <Fully charge the pack>
Set the FW (FW = field weakening) base speed to my motor's
 top RPM (4,800 RPM's). From a stop, set the throttle to the
 floor and accelerate.  (It will not be very fast as the FW
setting is at zero)  The motor will reach a plateau and
slow it's RPM climb.  At that point, stop the
 car.  Remember the RPM where it started to slow down
 subtract 200 RPM and set that as the FW base speed.
 Cycle the key switch.

Step 3=FW test.  Set "capture speed 1 and capture speed
2 to values close to your max RPM setting.  CAP1=4,400 and
 CAP 2- 4,600

Accelerate to RPM greater than CAP 2.  If you can not, increase
the FW setting until you can. Then read and record CAP 1 and
 CAP 2.   Increase the FW setting and repeat.  Keep repeating
 until there is no further gains (time to RPM loss= gain). At some
point you will reach CAP 1 but not CAP 2...you are getting close
 to your value. Set your FW parameter to the last value that gave
 a gain that got you to your max RPM.  Cycle the Key switch.

That should be it.

Now, having done that procedure, I can see how the FW setting
 can be altered to give more economical pack life.  My AC50 had
a 90% FW value.  It would cruise at 90 Amps @ 40 MPH.  At the
 loss of some acceleration time, I could turn the FW down a little
 to extend my mileage.  Especially if I live in flat terrain (I do) and
the acceleration is tolerable.

Miz
1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline few2many

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 06:11:57 PM »
What did you're FW end up at?






Answer: 10% F/W and 1% rate....Miz

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 08:20:23 PM »
After the controller performs the 1st. phase of the motor optimization routine, It sets the FW value at zero (0). 

That is so when you run the 2nd. phase test to determine the FW base speed, the FW does not influence the result.

Then the 3rd. phase of the test (is 0 to a set RPM runs) while varying the FW value to choose what the motor "likes" best.
(You keep getting faster acceleration times until it begins to get slower.  Back up to the quickest FW figure and set the controller).


You can fudge the FW base speed some to affect the low RPM torque, but the top end torque IS the FW percentage.

Miz
1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 08:23:03 PM »
I had a small set back today.  The 14 year old Toshiba laptop has started acting up and I can not proceed with the optimization till it is fixed.  Curses and rats!

About 15-20 minutes and I could have been done.

Miz
1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline few2many

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2013, 10:08:12 PM »
Everything holds up for one, little, annoyance

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2013, 05:39:40 AM »
Yah, during the build, I had 4 or 5 items that I had bought that did not work right out-of-the-box....GRRRR

SO, ....... Patience is a learned thing.  I  certainly have learned.


I need to do some other things too...like the junkyard driveshaft vibrates a little and needs a new tube. So, taking this as a plus,  I think  I will move the motor back one set of holes and place it where (I think) it really needs to go.

But, TODAY, I am setting up a desktop mid tower out in the garage.  I can at least change parameters.  I lose the ability of a "Capture" feature to compare results, but I can just use a stopwatch.  It will be slower to go back to change parameters each run, but I still can finish this way. 

More later (Hopefully)

Miz
1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2013, 06:48:36 AM »
I am going to be out of town this week.  Sorry to all who are following this project.

Here is a "finished" pic:




NOTE:  The new motor will "torque" the mount a little under acceleration, so I need to fab and install an upper torque brace at the drive end on the left side.

Later, Miz
1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2013, 10:38:37 AM »
Just in case anyone is interested in a size comparison:  The AC50 and the new motor, side by side.
If I can, I will get another one with both sitting on the floor.


The AC50 has a case O.D. of 8" and the new motor has a rotor
 O.D. of 8". The new motor rotor is the size of the AC50!

1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2013, 11:46:30 AM »
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________________

      Optimizing the new motor

I finally got back into the shop to do some more on the car.
 I set the hand held monitor to do the run in section of the
 procedure. With the car up on stands and clear of the floor.
 It did two pulls, had a maximum current of 535
amps and the motor got up to 107 C. at the end of the test.

I set the capture speeds at 30 MPH and 60 MPH and did some
zero to 60 MPH runs.  I recorded each run, the time for each
segment (0-30 and 0-60 MPH)

This test sets the slip gain. I got the best average times with
 the slip gain set at 3.30 but the controller puts the slip back
at 3.20 whenever I exit the parameter.

I read the controller recommendation for the Field
 Weakening base speed and set it for 770 RPM.

I need a fully charged pack for the next (and last) part, so
It is charging.  It is setting the field weakening.

After I perform the field weakening tests, I will post the result.

Later...
1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2013, 07:14:08 AM »
___________________________________________________________________________ __________
    Reality sets in

After I had topped off the pack, I went out to finish the motor optimization.  HA-HA, what an optimist I was.
If you believe the Curtis supplied procedure, you would be done in an hour and go on with life.....

Reality is, The Slip gain, Field Weakening percentage, Field Weakening Base Speed,  Field Weakening rate and the Slip Gain are so inter related that every small change of one requires a change of the others in that search for the "sweet spot" where the motor is performing best through out it's operating range.

So far, I have a setting where I can destroy the tires, up to 1,100  RPM then it tapers off to where it barely drags the car along...LOL (But it is a fun setting)

I have a setting where it will barely spin the tires, accelerate strong to 1,100 RPM then keep pulling decently to 2,500 and taper off to stop at 3,000.

I HAVE learned that I need to do the Curtis instructed procedure.  Then  that is where the real work starts. 

I then go back to step 2 (after the auto-run in) and do steps 2, 3 & 4 over and over as each one changes the "sweet spot" for the other two. 

Your method of applying the throttle pedal NEEDS to be the same EVERY time or the tests are worthless.
So, the only repeatable method is to just slam the pedal down.  Every time.

Today I will get in two sessions (with a pack top off in between). 

More later...Miz



1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2013, 05:30:56 AM »
___________________________________________________________________________ ____________
                           Today

At this point, I have ran the full Curtis procedure.  It is better than I started out, but still has lots of improvement left in it.  (I feel)

After giving it some thought, I think I am going to vary the Field weakening Base RPM as my next test.  The present setting is 770 RPM and was recommended by the controller as the first setting to try.  I feel it is too low and will work my way up the scale in small increments to see what the result will be.

After the F/W RPM has been modified, I will go back to the Slip-gain setting to see if there is any improvements there.

As each parameter is changed, it alters the other parameter's "sweet spot" and requires them to be re-optimised.

Eventually, given enough experimental data, there can be a chart to determine a starting value for these parameters, that will cut down on the time required to calibrate them.

More this afternoon.

Miz



1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2013, 10:58:52 AM »
___________________________________________________________________________ ______________

This has been a good morning for me.  Lots of progress on the motor/controller combination.

I have been playing the programmer like a piano.  I have had all sorts of things dialed in and have a pretty good idea of how each parameter effects motor/controller performance.

The best ones are the ones you never get to set if you buy a pre-packaged motor/controller as a set.

The field weakening and the slip gain.

Most of my progress performance wise is with the field weakening(naturally).  The new motor wants more current in the worst way.  During the lower RPM segment,  the motor kicks in, chirps the tires and hauls ass right up to the field weakening base speed. (as determined by the controller)  I later learned to ignore this speed and to determine my own as stated below.

I even tried to trick it by having the F/W start early and late.....Both caused the motor to be slower than with the controller recommended RPM.

Over the base speed (770 RPM for my motor), I needed to set up the F/W percentage from 20% (which I previously had) to 75%, getting gains all the way.  At 75% the gains stop and the motor just starts heating and making an audible "keening" noise..

The F/W has two variables.  F/W and F/W percentage.  My F/W is now 40% and the F/W Percentage is 75%. 

LATER EDIT:  Learned to set the F/W base speed well above the motor's top RPM so it has no effect.  THEN make a speed run watching the RPM's go up until it gets to a place where it starts to slow and reach a little, THIS is the real base speed.  Subtract 200 RPMs from that and set it into the controller as the F/W Base speed.

This size motor, with this winding (two turns per coil) needs a TON more F/W than the AC50.  (Anyone have an AC30 or 35?  What is your F/W  and percent?)

The car is on the charger ATM.  These are full throttle tests and take the edge off of the pack quickly and then it starts affecting the results.  (Keep pack topped up for accurate tests)

This afternoon I hope to do some more work with the slip gain.  It is now back as a priority.

Miz
1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.

Offline mizlplix

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Re: copper rotors
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2013, 09:35:24 AM »
OOPS!

It seems I need a new contactor.  It finally went out after giving daily error messages for 3 months. (Contactor welded, contact points resistance too high....Etc)

It had suffered a previous mishap and I should have replaced it long before now......LOL

The new one should be here tomorrow.

Until then I am down for the count.

Miz

1930 Ford Speedster, AC50, full manual powerglide, 6.14gears, 38-130AH CALBs.